Sales Marketing Organizational Alignment

---
name: sales-marketing-organizational-alignment
description: "Guidance for aligning sales and marketing teams structurally, operationally, and culturally to drive shared revenue outcomes — trigger when addressing org design, cross-functional friction, shared metrics, or GTM planning."
version: "2026-04-21"
episode_count: 39
---

# Sales-Marketing Organizational Alignment

## Overview
This skill covers how B2B marketing leaders can build structural, operational, and cultural alignment with sales teams — including org design decisions, shared goal-setting, operating rhythms, communication practices, and how to handle conflict. All practices are sourced exclusively from guests on the Exit Five podcast. Do not supplement with general knowledge not represented here.

---

## Structural Alignment: Org Design and Reporting

### SDR/BDR Reporting Structure
*(Note: where SDRs/BDRs should report is actively contested — see Where Experts Disagree)*

When the question of SDR/BDR reporting structure arises, present the following positions and their rationale rather than defaulting to one answer:

**The case for SDRs/BDRs reporting to marketing:**
- Consolidating all prospecting under a single marketing-led pipeline creation function eliminates the blame game between departments, provides clear visibility into blended prospecting efficiency, and allows the CMO to own the entire path from lead generation through qualified meeting. The distinction between BDR and SDR (third-party vs. first-party data) is less important than consolidated ownership. (Source: Chris Walker, Episodes #281 and #211)
- Place the SDR/ADR team under marketing's organizational structure to eliminate misalignment between marketing's account selection and sales' prospecting activities. Negotiate this structure before hiring the first sales rep to avoid legacy incentive conflicts. (Source: Trinity Nguyen, Episode #219)
- Move the BDR team from sales to marketing when pipeline is a key north star metric for marketing and BDR activities are closely aligned with marketing campaigns (e.g., following up on webinar leads, nurturing marketing-generated prospects). (Source: Kelly Cheng, Episode #297)
- Outbound sales development should report to the marketing leader because outbound is fundamentally another distribution channel for messaging, and the marketing leader controls messaging strategy, landing pages, ads, and content. (Source: Sara Lattanzio, Episode #268)

**The case for sales ownership of demand generation:**
- When salespeople complain about insufficient leads, push back and ask what they can do to generate demand themselves. Salespeople should take entrepreneurial ownership of their pipeline through content, thought leadership, and direct outreach. (Source: Jen Allen-Knuth, Episodes #232 and #170)

### Consolidating Revenue Accountability
When restructuring a marketing organization, consolidate all revenue-generating functions (demand generation, pipeline, sales enablement, partner marketing) under one person with clear accountability for outcomes. This eliminates fragmentation where multiple teams own pieces of the revenue engine. (Source: Peter Mahoney, Episode #128)

### Merging Self-Serve and Enterprise Growth Teams
Combine self-serve and enterprise growth teams under a single growth leader to eliminate misaligned incentives and improve efficiency. This ensures high-quality leads entering through one funnel are properly nurtured through the other. (Source: Shane Murphy, Episode #173)

---

## The CMO-CRO Relationship

### Build a First-Ring Partnership, Not Just Alignment
*(Note: how to handle CMO-CRO vs. CEO conflicts is contested — see Where Experts Disagree)*

Move beyond alignment with sales to a first-ring partnership — the apex of the CMO-CRO relationship. Measure this partnership by: (1) How many times per day do you speak? (2) Do you answer each other's calls on the first ring? If not, you have work to do. This partnership is critical because your CRO has more leverage with the CEO and CFO than you do, and together you're a more powerful force. (Source: Dave Kellogg, Episode #342)

When you need to change the CEO's mind on a marketing issue, partner with your CRO to make the case together rather than approaching the CEO alone. The CRO can be more persuasive with the CEO than you can alone. (Source: Dave Kellogg, Episode #342)

### Present Marketing Strategy Jointly with the CRO
As CMO, align closely with the CRO and present your marketing plan together to the CFO. This joint presentation signals that marketing and sales are locked in strategy and both accountable for pipeline and revenue outcomes. The CRO's credibility with the CFO helps secure buy-in for marketing investments that may not show direct-response ROI. (Source: Kyle Coleman, Episodes #198 and #123)

### Defend Joint Decisions Together
When a board member questions a marketing program that was jointly decided with sales, have your sales partner defend the decision in the board meeting. The most powerful defense is the CRO saying "We agreed on this together, and it was a fantastic trade show for us. We closed X deals." If you didn't involve sales in the decision, you don't have this protection. (Source: Dave Kellogg, Episode #342)

### Align with CRO on Internal Communications
Work closely with your CRO to determine what the sales organization wants to hear about marketing. Secure a dedicated slot (e.g., 20 minutes) at yearly and half-year company kickoffs to present marketing updates. Collaborate with the CRO on what messaging will resonate with the revenue team. (Source: Priscilla Barolo, Episode #193)

---

## Shared Goals and Metrics

### Tie Goals to Shared Business Outcomes
*(Note: whether marketing should be measured on marketing-sourced pipeline or total pipeline is contested — see Where Experts Disagree)*

Establish one shared goal for both sales and marketing (e.g., total pipeline generation, revenue) rather than separate KPIs and credit attribution. Define different ways each team contributes to that goal, but measure success against the same outcome. This eliminates friction over handoffs and credit. (Source: Dave Gerhardt, Episode #148)

Structure compensation and recognition around cross-functional North Star metrics (e.g., total pipeline, not marketing-sourced pipeline) rather than individual team metrics. For sales-led motions, measure success on overall pipeline attainment across marketing, outbound, and partners combined. This removes the incentive for teams to argue about attribution. (Source: Jason Lyman, Episode #263)

View the entire customer journey as a continuum where both teams interact with prospects at different stages. Remove the need to assign credit to one team or the other; focus both teams on the shared goal of revenue. (Source: Mychelle Mollot, Episode #182)

### Set Goals Measurable in Under 30 Seconds
Set goals that directly link to business outcomes rather than activity metrics. Goals should be specific enough that you can determine in under 30 seconds whether you hit them by opening a single report (ideally a Salesforce dashboard). Examples: "increase SDR meetings booked per rep from X to Y" or "increase stage-one-to-stage-two conversion from 40% to 55%." Avoid goals about launching tools or workflows; focus on the outcome those tools enable. (Source: Sean Lane, Episode #274)

### Define Funnel Milestones Before Scaling
Before scaling from founder-led sales to a professional go-to-market, establish shared definitions and system instrumentation for basic funnel milestones (leads, meetings, opportunities, customers). Get all stakeholders aligned on what each term means, how it will be counted, and ensure your systems are configured to track these consistently. This foundational work prevents multi-year ripple effects from misaligned definitions. (Source: Sean Lane, Episodes #274 and #187)

### Align Marketing Compensation to Revenue
*(Note: the specific form of revenue accountability is contested — see Where Experts Disagree)*

Structure marketing leadership compensation and success metrics around company revenue growth rather than marketing-specific metrics like MQLs or pipeline. Include a revenue kicker in compensation but avoid tying it solely to marketing-sourced revenue, which creates misalignment with sales-led motions and outbound efforts. (Source: Taylor Udell, Episode #190)

Structure the marketing leader's compensation plan to tie a significant portion to actual company revenue (new revenue added, or all-up revenue including churn). Present the CEO with a scenario upfront: "If we hit this revenue number, do you agree I've earned this higher comp?" This shifts the marketer from a cost center mindset to a revenue owner mindset. (Source: Brian Kotlyar, Episode #118)

Structure marketing team compensation and KPIs around pipeline outcomes and revenue impact rather than lead or MQL volume. Tying compensation to pipeline outcomes — and ideally giving SDRs skin in the game on closed deals — creates alignment between marketing and sales. (Source: Ruth Zive, Episode #175)

---

## Operating Rhythms and Meeting Cadences

### Establish Regular Operating Rhythms
Create a recurring meeting cadence (e.g., every Tuesday at 4pm) between marketing and ops leaders to maintain alignment. Use these meetings to discuss big rocks and goals, team dynamics and performance, progress against goals, and tactical operational items. Start with strategic priorities before diving into operational details. (Source: Sean Lane, Episodes #274 and #187)

### Run Full-Team GTM Alignment Meetings
Run two recurring meetings: (1) a full-company weekly wins meeting where everyone shares a win and gives a shout-out to create visibility across departments, and (2) a full-team sprint meeting at the top of the week where marketing, sales, and CS align on what everyone is working on. These meetings create an open forum where team members can identify how to help each other. (Source: Natalie Taylor, Episode #306)

### Hold Bi-Weekly Pod Calls with AE/SDR Teams
Schedule bi-weekly meetings with each AE/SDR pod to review their target accounts, discuss which funnel stages those accounts are in, and align on the messaging and strategy for the next two weeks. Include sales enablement content in these calls. This ensures sales understands the rationale behind account selection and messaging and creates shared ownership of pipeline strategy. (Source: Jean Cameron, Episode #315)

### Anchor Cross-Functional Meetings on Shared Goals and Blockers
Structure cross-functional marketing meetings around a shared scorecard or set of goals. Start by reviewing progress on those shared goals, then focus the discussion on identifying and resolving blockers. Avoid spending time on status updates or reading through lists of bullets; instead, ask: What's blocked? Why? Can we unblock it right now? (Source: Ashley Faus, Episode #264)

### Establish Quarterly Goal Alignment Between Marketing and Ops
At the start of each quarter, marketing and ops leaders should sit down together and explicitly align on priorities. The ops leader should ask two questions: (1) What is on my list that you don't think is important? (2) What is not on my list that you do think is important? This creates shared grounding so that when new priorities emerge mid-quarter, both teams can have a real prioritization conversation. (Source: Sean Lane, Episodes #274 and #187)

---

## Handling Sales Feedback and Requests

### Diagnose Before Prescribing
*(Note: the right default posture toward sales feedback is contested — see Where Experts Disagree)*

When sales or other stakeholders request a marketing tactic, do not immediately agree. Diagnose first: What problem are you trying to solve? What symptoms are you experiencing? This positions you as a professional advisor (like a doctor) rather than a vendor. Say yes to easy requests when you can, but always understand the underlying need first. (Source: Dave Kellogg, Episode #342)

### Validate Sales Claims with Data Before Acting
When sales makes assertions like "nobody has heard of us" or "we just need more at-bats," treat these as hypotheses, not facts. Write down the claim and then bring data to validate or refute it before committing budget. Use multiple data sources: CRM reporting, win/loss analysis, lead surveys, and market research. Recognize that CRM data has availability bias — it only tells you about people who already found you, not about the market that hasn't heard of you. Approach this as a dispassionate analyst trying to get the right answer, not as someone defending marketing. (Source: Dave Kellogg, Episode #342)

When sales reports that a campaign or piece of content caused lost deals, ask for data rather than immediately pivoting. Push back with questions like "Can you show me the deals we lost because of this?" This prevents overreacting to anecdotal feedback and keeps you focused on patterns rather than noise. (Source: Adam Goyette, Episode #164)

### Implement a Formal Intake Process for Cross-Functional Requests
Establish a rule that all requests from sales, leadership, or other departments must be submitted through a centralized channel (e.g., Slack channel, form, project management tool) rather than direct messages or ad-hoc asks. This ensures visibility across the marketing team, allows leadership to see the full request load, and enables the team to have group-level trade-off conversations about priorities. (Source: Hannak Rankin, Episode #210)

### Measure Sales Satisfaction with Marketing
Run a quarterly customer satisfaction survey where the customer is your sales team. Include 4-5 questions on a 5-star scale plus open-ended questions. Sample questions: (1) How satisfied are you with marketing in helping build and drive revenue? (2) What new content would you like to see? (3) What events should we attend? (4) How well do we hear and support your requests? (5) If you could change one thing about how we work together, what would it be? Use results to identify alignment gaps and proactively address issues before they escalate. (Source: Aditya Vempaty, Episode #235)

Before sending a sales satisfaction survey, meet with the sales leader (CRO, VP of Sales) to review and agree on the questions. Identify which questions are genuinely strategic (worth acting on) versus reactive (driven by a recent lost deal or missed request). Set shared expectations about which feedback will drive action and which will be noted but not prioritized. (Source: Aditya Vempaty, Episode #235)

For product marketing teams that support sales, include a KPI that measures how satisfied the sales team is with the support they're receiving. If a sales leader goes to the CMO and says the product marketing team is hard to work with or slow to deliver assets, it undermines the entire function. (Source: Jeff Hardison, Episode #335)

---

## Building Cross-Functional Relationships

### Build Relationships Before You Need Them
Establish strong relationships with product managers, sales leaders, CS teams, and other departments well in advance of needing their buy-in or support. Participate actively in Slack channels and conversations you weren't directly tagged into. Offer help and insights on problems you weren't asked to solve. The stronger the pre-existing relationship, the easier it is to get buy-in on future initiatives. (Source: Jessica Andrews, Episode #217)

### Involve Sales in Marketing Planning from the Start
Collaborate with sales leadership early in the planning process to align on business goals, pipeline targets, and campaign strategy. Present the marketing plan jointly with sales to the rest of the company as a unified unit. Avoid presenting marketing and sales plans separately. (Source: Dave Gerhardt, Episode #210)

### Build Product-Marketing Alignment Through Small Experiments
To align product and marketing teams, find one advocate on the product team who shares your vision or is willing to listen. Run a small, low-risk experiment together in their area of expertise. When it succeeds, use that win to approach the next person on the team, showing them what their peer accomplished. This creates a snowball effect where peers want to participate once they see their colleagues succeeding. (Source: Dmitry Shamis, Episode #238)

### Align Demand Gen and Product Marketing
Demand gen and product marketing often have different personalities and measurement frameworks, which can create conflict. Demand gen should help product marketing prove that new positioning drives revenue; product marketing should help demand gen understand messaging and positioning. This requires intentional alignment and leadership that prevents the teams from becoming siloed or adversarial. (Source: Dave Gerhardt, Episode #335)

### Partner Demand Gen with Brand and Community Insights
The brand and community team should be the best partner to demand gen. They have data points from organic engagement (comments, shares, questions) that reveal what messages resonate. Demand gen should use these insights to inform paid campaigns rather than guessing. This creates a feedback loop where organic performance informs paid strategy. (Source: Dave Gerhardt, Episode #134)

---

## Win/Loss and Research Alignment

### Involve Cross-Functional Leaders in Win/Loss Question Design
Before conducting Win/Loss interviews, meet with heads of product, sales, and marketing to understand their goals and assumptions. Use these conversations to develop a question set that directly ties to revenue goals and business priorities. Stakeholders are more likely to act on findings when they helped shape the research. (Source: Drew Giovannoli, Episode #221)

### Test Win/Loss Hypotheses with Stakeholders Before Executive Presentation
Before presenting Win/Loss findings to the executive team or board, share initial findings with sales, product, and marketing leaders separately. Present the raw learnings and ask them to help identify which findings are critical, which are already known, and which should be removed. Use their context to form recommendations collaboratively rather than presenting recommendations as your own interpretation. (Source: Drew Giovannoli, Episode #221)

### Frame Win/Loss Feedback to Sales as Customer Voice
When presenting Win/Loss findings that include feedback on sales performance, position yourself as a conduit of customer voice rather than offering personal criticism. Involve sales leadership from the start in designing the research so they feel ownership. Use the framing "Here's what customers said about their experience" rather than "Sales did this wrong." (Source: Drew Giovannoli, Episode #221)

### Conduct Live Meetings for Win/Loss Planning and Presentation
Schedule live, synchronous meetings with product, sales, and marketing leaders when designing Win/Loss questions and presenting findings. Live meetings allow for follow-up questions, deeper understanding, and the ability to pull on threads that async communication misses. Keep individual meetings brief (20 minutes with each leader) but prioritize live interaction over async documentation. (Source: Drew Giovannoli, Episode #221)

### Use Buying Journey Research to Align Sales on Brand Investment
Reference published research on B2B buying journeys (e.g., studies showing buying journeys are longer than expected, require many interactions, and buyers select vendors before contacting sales) to justify brand investment to sales leadership. Use these studies to reframe the sales role: sales is validating buyer research, not driving discovery. (Source: Lisa Cole, Episode #315)

---

## Conflict Resolution

### Resolve Peer Conflicts Directly, Not Through the CEO
*(Note: this is in tension with the "prioritize CRO over CEO" position — see Where Experts Disagree)*

When you have conflict or misalignment with a peer (e.g., VP of Sales), resist the temptation to run to the CEO to referee. Sit down with the peer, acknowledge the tension, and work it out together. The CEO doesn't care if you like each other; they care that you're working together to grow the business. Direct resolution builds credibility and prevents the CEO from becoming a bottleneck. (Source: Amrita Mathur, Episode #188)

### Replace Blame with Collaborative Problem-Solving
When issues arise between sales and marketing, avoid framing problems as belonging to one team (e.g., "that's a marketing thing"). Instead, immediately shift to collaborative problem-solving by scheduling a meeting to game plan together and share resources. This approach prevents defensive reactions and acknowledges that both teams are often under-resourced and interdependent. (Source: Matt Carnevale, Episode #137)

### Build Alignment Through Shared Project Work
Build credibility and partnership between sales and marketing by identifying a specific, current project both teams can collaborate on (e.g., rewriting a sales deck together) and working through it with real feedback and mutual contribution. This creates genuine working rhythm and prevents reactive finger-pointing when issues arise. (Source: Dave Gerhardt, Episode #137)

---

## Ops as a Bridge Between Sales and Marketing

### Use Ops as an Objective Mediator
Position the ops leader as an objective party who bridges sales and marketing by facilitating alignment conversations. At the start of each month or quarter, the ops leader should ask marketing and sales leaders: "What is on my priority list that you don't think is important, and what is not on my list that you do think is important?" This grounds both teams in shared priorities before new initiatives arise. (Source: Sean Lane, Episodes #274 and #187)

### Understand Your Internal Customers' Day-to-Day Work
As an ops leader, invest time in understanding the day-to-day work of the teams you support (sales, marketing, etc.) as well as you understand your own job. This builds trust and allows you to provide value beyond just support. As a marketer, treat sales and ops as internal customers and understand their needs, constraints, and goals. (Source: Sean Lane, Episode #187)

---

## Understanding Sales to Serve Them Better

### Study Sales Compensation and Deal-Closing Process
Marketing leaders often don't understand how sales reps actually get deals done. Study your sales compensation plan, understand what behaviors it incentivizes, and learn the step-by-step process reps use to close deals. Sales reps can tell when marketing advice is disconnected from how they actually work. Until you internalize how reps work in accounts, it's hard to get them to believe marketing recommendations. (Source: Trinity Nguyen, Episode #306)

### Define Your Primary Goal as Making Sales Love Marketing
Set your primary success metric as sales team satisfaction and advocacy. This means delivering not just pipeline volume, but high-quality pipeline that closes. It also means giving sales a brand they're proud to represent in outreach, at events, and in customer conversations. Provide sales with positioning, objection handling, and pricing models they can understand and use confidently. (Source: Kelly Hopping, Episode #255)

### Diagnose Sales-Marketing Misalignment at the Execution Level
When assessing sales-marketing alignment, look beyond goal alignment to day-to-day execution gaps. Key diagnostic questions: (1) Is sales context making its way into marketing? (2) Are campaigns personalized to buyer needs based on sales conversations? (3) Do leads come with clear context explaining why they're qualified? (4) Can marketing collaborate with sales on messaging and strategy? Misalignment typically stems from poor information flow and collaboration, not goal disagreement. (Source: Jaleh Rezaei, Episode #248)

---

## Referral Programs and Cross-Functional Ownership

### Treat Referral Programs as Cross-Functional Responsibility
Referral success depends on exceptional service delivery, not marketing tactics alone. Position referrals as a lagging indicator of great service — they are fueled by customer joy and success, not by marketing asks. Ensure client success, sales, product/services delivery, and executive teams all understand their role in creating the conditions for referrals. Marketing's job is to systematize and make the program repeatable, but the foundation must be built by the entire organization. (Source: Sandra Rand, Episode #265)

---

## Where Experts Disagree

### 1. Should SDR/BDR teams report to marketing or sales?
**Support summary: 5 (marketing) vs. 2 (sales)**

**Position A — SDRs/BDRs should report to marketing:**
Chris Walker (Episodes #281, #211) argued that consolidating all prospecting under a single marketing-led function eliminates the blame game, provides clear visibility into blended prospecting efficiency, and allows the CMO to own the entire path from lead generation through qualified meeting. Trinity Nguyen (Episode #219) recommended placing the SDR/ADR team under marketing to eliminate misalignment between account selection and prospecting activities, and advised negotiating this structure before hiring the first sales rep. Kelly Cheng (Episode #297) recommended moving BDRs to marketing when pipeline is a key north star metric and BDR activities are closely aligned with marketing campaigns. Sara Lattanzio (Episode #268) argued that outbound is fundamentally another distribution channel for messaging and should therefore report to the marketing leader who controls messaging strategy.

**Position B — Sales should own demand generation responsibility:**
Jen Allen-Knuth (Episodes #232, #170) argued that when salespeople complain about insufficient leads, the response should be to push back and ask what they can do to generate demand themselves — implying sales ownership of demand rather than a structural shift to marketing. She argued that salespeople should take entrepreneurial ownership of their pipeline through content, thought leadership, and direct outreach.

**Context dependency:** The pro-marketing-ownership voices are largely speaking about ABM-heavy or pipeline-focused marketing motions at growth-stage companies. Allen-Knuth is speaking more about individual sales rep behavior and entrepreneurialism, not necessarily the org chart. However, both sides are making structural claims about where accountability should live, so there is genuine disagreement on the organizational question.

**Trend note:** The pro-marketing-ownership position clusters heavily in 2025 episodes (#219, #268, #281, #297), while the pro-sales-ownership position appears in 2024 (#170) and early 2025 (#232), suggesting a possible shift toward marketing ownership of SDR/BDR functions in more recent thinking.

**Why it matters:** Where SDRs report determines who owns pipeline accountability and who gets blamed when pipeline misses. The reporting structure also determines whether outbound messaging stays consistent with marketing strategy or drifts toward whatever sales finds tactically convenient.

---

### 2. Should marketing be measured on marketing-sourced pipeline specifically, or on total company pipeline?
**Support summary: 4 (total pipeline) vs. 2 (pipeline outcomes, not specified as shared)**

**Position A — Never isolate marketing-sourced pipeline; measure total pipeline:**
Jason Lyman (Episode #263) explicitly stated that for sales-led motions, you should measure success on overall pipeline attainment across marketing, outbound, and partners combined — never isolate marketing-sourced pipeline — because this removes the incentive for teams to argue about attribution. Taylor Udell (Episode #190) advised including a revenue kicker in marketing compensation but explicitly avoiding tying it solely to marketing-sourced revenue. Mychelle Mollot (Episode #182) argued for removing the need to assign credit to one team or the other, focusing both teams on the shared goal of revenue. Dave Gerhardt (Episode #148) recommended establishing one shared goal for both sales and marketing rather than separate KPIs and credit attribution.

**Position B — Tie marketing compensation to pipeline outcomes (form unspecified):**
Ruth Zive (Episode #175) argued for structuring marketing team compensation and KPIs around pipeline outcomes and revenue impact rather than lead or MQL volume, stating this creates alignment between marketing and sales and eliminates turf wars over lead sourcing. Brian Kotlyar (Episode #118) recommended tying a significant portion of marketing leader compensation to actual company revenue (new revenue added, or all-up revenue including churn).

**Context dependency:** This disagreement partially dissolves on closer inspection. The "avoid marketing-sourced pipeline" camp is specifically arguing against siloed attribution, while the "pipeline outcomes" camp is arguing against vanity metrics like MQLs. Both camps agree marketing should be accountable to revenue. The genuine tension is whether marketing should have its own pipeline number or share one with sales.

**Why it matters:** How marketing is measured determines what behavior it optimizes for. A marketing-sourced pipeline metric incentivizes gaming attribution; a shared revenue metric can make marketing's contribution invisible to the CFO and board.

---

### 3. When CEO and CRO goals conflict, whose direction should the CMO follow?
**Support summary: 2 (prioritize CRO) vs. 1 (resolve directly without defaulting to either)**

**Position A — Prioritize the CRO over the CEO when goals conflict:**
Kyle Coleman (Episode #198) explicitly stated that when CEO strategic direction conflicts with CRO revenue targets, the CMO should follow the CRO, because the CRO's compensation and accountability are tied to immediate results while the CEO may be focused on longer-term vision that creates misaligned initiatives. Dave Kellogg (Episode #342) argued that when conflicts arise between CEO and CRO direction, the CMO should prioritize the CRO (their customer) over the CEO (their boss) because sales will ultimately come for you if you don't treat them as your primary customer. He framed the CRO relationship as a "first-ring partnership" that supersedes other relationships.

**Position B — Resolve conflicts directly without escalating or defaulting to one party:**
Amrita Mathur (Episode #188) advised resisting the temptation to run to the CEO to referee conflicts with peer executives like the VP of Sales. She argued that CMOs are hired to figure it out themselves, and direct resolution builds credibility. She did not endorse defaulting to the CRO's direction.

**Context dependency:** Coleman and Kellogg may be speaking to situations where the CEO is product-focused and less revenue-oriented, while Mathur may be speaking to more balanced leadership teams. However, the core question of whether to structurally prioritize the CRO over the CEO is a genuine disagreement in principle.

**Why it matters:** A CMO who defaults to the CRO risks being seen as a sales order-taker rather than a strategic executive; one who tries to balance both without a clear framework risks being caught in the middle when priorities diverge. The answer shapes how the CMO builds credibility with the full C-suite.

---

### 4. When sales complains about marketing, should you act on it or validate with data first?
**Support summary: 4 (prioritize sales satisfaction/responsiveness) vs. 2 (validate with data first)**

**Position A — Validate with data before acting:**
Dave Kellogg (Episode #342) explicitly advised writing down sales claims and bringing data to validate or refute them before committing budget. He noted that CRM data has availability bias and that claims like "nobody has heard of us" require market research, not just internal data. He framed this as acting like a dispassionate analyst. Adam Goyette (Episode #164) advised pushing back on sales feedback by requesting data before reacting, noting that sales may report on two lost deals out of 1000 opportunities as if it's a systemic problem, and recommended asking "Can you show me the deals we lost because of this?"

**Position B — Prioritize sales satisfaction and responsiveness:**
Kelly Hopping (Episode #255) defined the #1 CMO goal as making sales love marketing, measured by pipeline quality and brand pride, framing sales team satisfaction and advocacy as the primary success metric. Dave Kellogg (Episode #342) simultaneously argued for treating the CRO as your primary customer and building a first-ring partnership where you prioritize the CRO over the CEO — implying a high degree of responsiveness to sales leadership (note: Kellogg appears on both sides of this tension). Aditya Vempaty (Episode #235) recommended running quarterly internal CSAT surveys with the sales team and using results to proactively address issues before they escalate, rather than waiting for complaints and then validating them with data. Jeff Hardison (Episode #335) recommended including a KPI that measures how satisfied the sales team is with product marketing support, ensuring accountability to the internal customer.

**Context dependency:** These positions are not fully mutually exclusive — one can validate claims with data while still being oriented toward sales satisfaction. The genuine tension is in the default posture: do you start from a place of skepticism toward sales claims (data-first) or from a place of service to sales (satisfaction-first)? This is a real behavioral disagreement regardless of context.

**Why it matters:** A marketer who always defers to sales feedback will waste budget on awareness campaigns when the real bottleneck is sales conversion; a marketer who always demands data before acting will be seen as defensive and unresponsive, damaging the relationship that makes the entire GTM engine work.

---

## What NOT To Do

- **Do not treat sales claims as facts without validation.** When sales says "nobody has heard of us" or "we just need more at-bats," write down the claim and bring data before committing budget. CRM data has availability bias — it only tells you about people who already found you. (Source: Dave Kellogg, Episode #342)

- **Do not immediately agree to tactical requests without diagnosing the underlying problem.** Asking "do you want the $250K or $500K version?" without understanding the business problem positions you as a vendor, not a strategic advisor. (Source: Dave Kellogg, Episode #342)

- **Do not present marketing and sales plans separately to the company.** Present them jointly as a unified unit to signal shared accountability. (Source: Dave Gerhardt, Episode #210)

- **Do not allow cross-functional requests to come in through direct messages or ad-hoc channels.** Without a formal intake process, one-off requests fragment the team and derail planned work. (Source: Hannak Rankin, Episode #210)

- **Do not measure marketing solely on MQLs or lead volume.** This disconnects marketing from the sales process and may optimize for quantity over quality. (Source: Ruth Zive, Episode #175)

- **Do not run to the CEO to referee conflicts with peer executives.** Sit down with the peer, acknowledge the tension, and work it out together. (Source: Amrita Mathur, Episode #188)

- **Do not frame Win/Loss findings as personal criticism of sales.** Position yourself as a conduit of customer voice. Use "Here's what customers said about their experience" rather than "Sales did this wrong." (Source: Drew Giovannoli, Episode #221)

- **Do not send a sales satisfaction survey without first aligning with the sales leader on the questions.** Without this pre-alignment, the survey may capture only the most recent pain point rather than strategic gaps. (Source: Aditya Vempaty, Episode #235)

- **Do not allow demand gen and product marketing to become siloed or adversarial.** When both teams believe in each other's goals and see each other as superpowers, the result is powerful; when they don't, both functions underperform. (Source: Dave Gerhardt, Episode #335)

- **Do not allow sales to complete projects independently and then ask marketing to fix them.** Sales should involve marketing early in project planning (e.g., email campaigns, sales materials) rather than requesting fixes after completion. (Source: Matt Carnevale, Episode #137)

- **Do not isolate marketing-sourced pipeline as a metric in sales-led motions.** This creates misalignment with sales-led motions, incentivizes attribution fights, and encourages teams to optimize their own metrics rather than shared outcomes. (Source: Jason Lyman, Episode #263)

- **Do not overreact to anecdotal sales feedback.** Sales is reactive and may report on two lost deals out of 1000 opportunities as if it's a systemic problem. Push back with data requests before pivoting strategy. (Source: Adam Goyette, Episode #164)

---

## Sources

| Episode | Guest | Date |
|---------|-------|------|
| #118 | Brian Kotlyar | 2024-02-19 |
| #123 | Kyle Coleman | 2024-03-11 |
| #128 | Peter Mahoney | 2024-04-01 |
| #134 | Dave Gerhardt | 2024-04-22 |
| #137 | Matt Carnevale, Dave Gerhardt | 2024-05-02 |
| #148 | Dave Gerhardt | 2024-06-10 |
| #157 | Adam Robinson | 2024-07-11 |
| #159 | Kris Rudeegraap | 2024-07-18 |
| #164 | Adam Goyette | 2024-08-05 |
| #170 | Jen Allen Knuth | 2024-08-26 |
| #173 | Shane Murphy | 2024-09-05 |
| #175 | Ruth Zive | 2024-09-12 |
| #182 | Mychelle Mollot | 2024-10-07 |
| #187 | Sean Lane | 2024-10-24 |
| #188 | Amrita Mathur | 2024-10-28 |
| #190 | Taylor Udell | 2024-11-04 |
| #193 | Priscilla Barolo | 2024-11-14 |
| #198 | Kyle Coleman | 2024-12-02 |
| #210 | Hannak Rankin, Dave Gerhardt | 2025-01-13 |
| #211 | Chris Walker | 2025-01-16 |
| #217 | Jessica Andrews | 2025-02-06 |
| #219 | Trinity Nguyen | 2025-02-13 |
| #221 | Drew Giovannoli | 2025-02-20 |
| #232 | Jen Allen-Knuth | 2025-03-27 |
| #235 | Aditya Vempaty | 2025-04-07 |
| #238 | Dmitry Shamis | 2025-04-17 |
| #248 | Jaleh Rezaei | 2025-05-22 |
| #255 | Kelly Hopping | 2025-06-16 |
| #263 | Jason Lyman | 2025-07-10 |
| #264 | Ashley Faus | 2025-07-14 |
| #265 | Sandra Rand | 2025-07-17 |
| #268 | Sara Lattanzio | 2025-07-28 |
| #274 | Sean Lane | 2025-08-18 |
| #281 | Chris Walker | 2025-09-11 |
| #297 | Kelly Cheng | 2025-10-23 |
| #306 | Natalie Taylor, Trinity Nguyen | 2025-11-24 |
| #315 | Lisa Cole, Jean Cameron | 2025-12-25 |
| #335 | Dave Gerhardt, Jeff Hardison | 2026-03-05 |
| #342 | Dave Kellogg | 2026-03-31 |